Interview: Denzel Washington On Whether Robert McCall’s Story Will Continue After “The Equalizer 3”
On his very last day filming “The Equalizer 3”, Denzel Washington completed his final scene and quietly slipped away. He knew, of course, that it was a landmark occasion but the double Academy Award winning actor is not a man to make a fuss. He has played Robert McCall, the former US marine and intelligence operative who becomes a ruthless vigilante when confronted with injustice, in three films spanning across a decade, working alongside director Antoine Fuqua and a team of trusted collaborators to create a contemporary cinematic anti-hero who has captivated millions across the world.
The final instalment of the trilogy is set in Italy – McCall is seeking refuge in a small coastal town when he is drawn into battle with the Mafia – and when the director called ‘cut’, this was a special moment, even in a career as stellar as Washington’s. But Fuqua’s leading man simply packed up and headed for home. There was no big party, no presentations, just, perhaps, a contemplation of a job well done.
“I’m always one to kind of walk away quietly with no big speeches,” he says. “In fact, on my last day we were filming in Rome and I’m just a quiet kind of guy, no fanfare, look up and I’m gone.” It’s impossible to resist pointing out that it’s exactly what his character, the enigmatic loner McCall, would do, too. “That’s true, that’s right,” laughs Washington. “After he’s done his work, he’s gone. And it’s like, ‘where is he?’”
Washington first played McCall in 2014’s “The Equalizer”, reuniting with Fuqua who had directed him in his brilliant Oscar winning performance as a corrupt cop in “Training Day” (2001). “The Equalizer 3” does, in fact, mark their fifth film together – as well as the “Equalizer” trilogy and “Training Day” they teamed up for “The Magnificent Seven” in 2016. They clearly have creative rapport.
“You know now with Antoine, it’s such a shorthand,” he says. “We had tremendous success right off the bat with ‘Training Day’ and we got to know each other over time and our families got to know each other and all of that. I like the way he works and he’s a great collaborator and that’s important to me.” The huge success of “The Equalizer” convinced him to return, in 2018, for another chapter in the McCall story, the only time that Washington has ever returned to the same character on the big screen. He knows – because people are always telling him – that McCall has found a special place in the hearts of audiences.
“What I’ve found from talking to people is that they like the character because he stands for justice,” he says. “Just different people I’ve talked to really like that character and they are like ‘well, he can get the bad guys that we can’t get. He can get those in authority, the people in power, and bring them down’ and that seems to be something that they like about him.”
Indeed, he recalls that over the years, after both the first and the second “Equalizer” films, he’s had conversations from people from all walks of life – from doormen to doctors – who wanted to know when McCall was coming back. “I was talking to the doormen in my building and I had just done Fences and I was talking to them about ‘Fences’ and they were like, ‘yeah, yeah Fences is great but when are you going to do another ‘Equalizer’?’
“You know, that seems to be one that they can relate to and get excited about and want to root for McCall. I remember years ago, in the 1980s in fact, I did this very serious movie (Cry Freedom) about (anti-apartheid activist) Stephen Biko and it was ‘oh it’s very important…’ and I remember talking to a friend of mine about it who was a doctor. I was telling him about it and he was like ‘I deal with life and death every day, I go to the movies to escape, to have fun, not to deal with life and death.’ And I was like, ‘I never thought of it that way.’”
McCall is a complex man, both ordinary and extraordinary. A former black ops specialist who carries the loss of his much adored wife, when we first met him back in 2014 he was trying to live a quiet life in Boston, working in a hardware superstore and living frugally with few possessions except from the books he would devour, especially in the wee small hours when, suffering from insomnia, he would sit in a diner, drink his tea and read.
There he met and befriended a young sex worker Teri (played by Chloë Grace Moretz) who is controlled by Russian gangsters. When Teri is brutally beaten, McCall’s strict moral code has been breached and he has to act to try and save her and that’s when he reverts back to the deadly skills he acquired in his previous professional life.
In the second film, McCall is working as a driver when his former boss Susan Plummer (Melissa Leo) is murdered and he vows to track down her killers. In the eagerly awaited third “Equalizer” film, McCall has been on a mission in Italy where, at the start of the story, he is wounded and is cared for by a doctor in a small coastal town.
“Initially he is injured and he needs help and that’s a part of it, Robert is a person who is not used to needing or wanting help. He has been very much a loner. And that’s not the case now. He can go no further alone. He’s forced to deal with people, he’s forced to rely on people and he’s forced to ultimately learn to enjoy other people,” says Washington. “He gets drawn into the lives of the people in this little town where he finds himself. And he can’t help himself.”
With a ruthless Mafia boss and his band of murderous henchmen threatening the lives of people in the town he has grown to care about, McCall is drawn into their fight. And in doing so he will cross paths with a young CIA officer, Emma Collins, played by Dakota Fanning. Washington and Ms Fanning had, of course, worked together before on the acclaimed thriller “Man on Fire” (2004). “It’s interesting looking that little girl in the eyes 20 years ago and now she’s a grown woman,” he says. “It’s just a little strange for me personally. Dakota is just lovely and needless to say very talented.”
Long before the cameras rolled, Washington began preparing for what would be a physically demanding role. “Well, it’s been a two year process so far, just my physical transformation, going back to the beginning of 2022 I lost about 30lbs and now I’ve lost probably another 15lbs or whatever. Just re-shaping.” Now 68 and a keen boxer for more than three decades, he’s clearly in great shape. “There’s a line in ‘The Tragedy of Macbeth’ where he talks about the ‘yellow leaf’ of his life and I think I’m in that place now, I think I’m in the yellow leaf period, the leaves aren’t going to be that green anymore,” he laughs. “And that’s OK. So I’m at a present where physically, spiritually and mentally, I want to be at my best. I want to see what is the limit, what do I have to offer.”
He likes to do as much of the action himself as he can. “Well because I’ve been training and boxing for years, for decades, I’m good at throwing punches and being physical. I’ve got a great stuntman and I try to let him do as much as he can and I try to take credit for all of it,” he laughs. “So when it comes to throwing punches usually it’s me throwing ‘em! When it comes to catching punches usually it’s him!”
Filming took place in several locations in Italy but mostly in Atrani, a beautiful town on the Amalfi Coast, a region of the country that Washington knows well. “I’ve been all over Italy and for the last 30 or so years we’ve gone to that part of the world almost every summer. But I’d never been there for a job before. And it’s absolutely beautiful. It was a real pleasure to be there, to work there.”
So what does Washington hope that audiences will take from “The Equalizer 3”? “I hope that they will feel the warmth that’s a part of it. You start to root for these people. I think the town of Atrani is only about 800 people and in our story they all join together to fight, motivated by McCall. They have strength in numbers and they help to fight against the bad guys. They are no longer afraid to be bullied anymore and you know it was just fun to be a part of this story and I hope that people enjoy it in the way they enjoyed the first two films. It’s got lots of spectacular action and brilliant performances from a great cast.”
Washington was born in Mount Vernon, New York, and studied drama at Fordham University. After starring in the medical drama St. Elsewhere, he went on to establish himself as one of the very best actors of his generation with films including “Mo’ Better Blues”, “Philadelphia”, “Crimson Tide”, “Devil In A Blue Dress”, “Inside Man”, “American Gangster”, “The Book of Eli”, “Safe House” and “2 Guns”.
He has won two Academy Awards; Best Supporting Actor for “Glory” (1990) and Best Actor for “Training Day” (2001). He has a further eight Oscar nominations, including Best Actor in a Leading Role and Best Picture for “Fences”. He was also nominated for Best Actor for “Cry Freedom”, “Malcolm X”, “The Hurricane”, “Flight”, “Roman J. Israel”, “Esq” and “The Tragedy of Macbeth”.
Q: What was it like to make “The Equalizer 3”?
A: Well, number one it was very different because we were in Europe, Italy, specifically, which was great and specifically on the Amalfi Coast, which was beautiful.
Q: Did you know that part of Italy?
A: Actually I had been to the Amalfi Coast but I had never been to where we filmed. It’s a part of Italy that I love. I’ve been all over Italy and for the last 30 or so years we’ve gone to that part of the world almost every summer. But I’d never been there for a job before. And it’s absolutely beautiful. It was a real pleasure to be there, to work there.
Q: What does taking Robert McCall out of that American setting and putting him into Italy bring to the story?
A: I wouldn’t say that he is not in his element but there are obviously language differences, cultural differences, and the food – all of those things. So McCall has challenges to face – but then, he always does. And he’s a man who loves a challenge.
Q: Is he seeking a little bit of peace there?
A: I think so definitely. And not in the way that he thinks when he first gets there but as it develops, the people that he meets, the town that he becomes a part of. I don’t know if we can say that he is seeking something that doesn’t have anything to do with him being in Italy in the first place. But I think it speaks more to his restlessness and not really being able to put his job down.
Q: Robert McCall is the only character that you’ve returned to on the big screen. What is it about him that you enjoy playing?
A: What I’ve found from talking to people is that they like the character because he stands for justice. Just different people I’ve talked to really like that character and they are like ‘well, he can get the bad guys that we can’t get. He can get those in authority, the people in power, and bring them down’ and that seems to be something that they like about him.
Q: And that feeling is particularly strong in troubled times when we feel that there is someone out there who looks out for the little guy. Do you agree?
A: Yes. I haven’t heard it exactly that way, in those words, but I was talking to the doormen in my building and I had just done “Fences” and I was talking to them about “Fences” and they were like, ‘yeah, yeah ‘Fences’ is great but when are you going to do another ‘Equalizer’?’ You know, that seems to be one that they can relate to and get excited about and want to root for. I remember years ago, in the 1980s in fact, I did this very serious movie (“Cry Freedom”) about (anti-apartheid activist) Stephen Biko and it was ‘oh it’s very important…’ and I remember talking to a friend of mine about it who was a doctor. And I was telling him about it and he was like ‘I deal with life and death every day, I go to the movies to escape, to have fun, not to deal with life and death.’ And I was like, ‘I never thought of it that way.’ Just because it was important to me doesn’t mean it was important to him.
Q: But how important is the emotional core that is part of the “Equalizer” films? Robert is a man who cares and the audience cares about him….
A: Interestingly he gives people a chance before he executes – no pun intended – justice. You know he tries to give people the chance to do the right thing but he just keeps running into the wrong people.
Q: How important is collaboration in the filmmaking process? It seems that with the “Equalizer” films there are some strong creative partnerships, not least with Antoine Fuqua who has directed you in all three “Equalizer” films and two others (“Training Day” and “The Magnificent Seven”). Why does it work so well?
A: You know now it’s such a shorthand. We had tremendous success right off the bat with “Training Day” and we got to know each other over time and our families got to know each other and all of that. Five movies I’ve done with Antoine now? Yeah it is. And I’ve done four movies with Spike (Lee). There are certain filmmakers that I just got along with. In fact, Spike and I will be working together again next year.
Q: And on the “Equalizer” trilogy you had writer Richard Wenk who has worked on all three, producer Todd Black, who you have worked with on many films…
A: Yes, definitely. In fact, talking about Todd Black this was really his idea. He wanted to find something to develop for me and this was what he developed over time and it’s turned out to be quite successful.
Q: And whilst we’re talking about creative partnerships, you are reunited with Dakota Fanning again after first working together on “Man on Fire” almost 20 years ago. What was that like?
A: Yeah, that’s not strange in a bad way but it’s just interesting looking that little girl in the eyes 20 years ago and now she’s a grown woman. It’s just a little strange for me personally. But she is just lovely and needless to say very talented.
Q: Let’s talk a little about the story in “Equalizer 3”. Robert comes up against a very formidable adversary in the form of the Mafia doesn’t he?
A: Yes he does. He gets drawn into the lives of the people in this little town where he finds himself. And he can’t help himself. Initially he is injured and he needs help and that’s a part of it, Robert is a person who is not used to needing or wanting help. He has been very much a loner. And that’s not the case now. He can go no further alone. He’s forced to deal with people, he’s forced to rely on people and he’s forced to ultimately learn to enjoy other people.
Q: Would you say he is a haunted man? Haunted by the loss of his wife who he clearly adored…
A: I think so. He’s haunted by and attracted to what he does for a living, for lack of a better word. I think he is haunted by it and yet he can’t seem to live without it and he is fed by it.
Q: There’s a line in “Equalizer 3” when Robert is asked ‘are you a good man or a bad man?’ And he replies, ‘I don’t know..’
A: Yeah, that sounds like most of us (laughs). Not to this extreme but you know it’s a good question. And I wouldn’t necessarily trust the person who answers ‘a good man’ without thinking long and hard.
Q: What kind of preparation did you have to do for this film?
A: Well, it’s been a two-year process so far, just my physical transformation, going back to the beginning of 2022 I lost about 30lbs and now I’ve lost probably another 15lbs or whatever. Just re-shaping. There’s a line in “The Tragedy of Macbeth” where he talks about the ‘yellow leaf’ of his life and I think I’m in that place now, I think I’m in the yellow leaf period, the leaves aren’t going to be that green anymore (laughs). And that’s OK. So I’m at a present where physically, spiritually and mentally, I want to be at my best. I want to see what is the limit, what do I have to offer.
Q: Do you enjoy that kind of physical challenge?
A: Yes, I do. I don’t want to say you have to reinvent the wheel but you need challenges and you know in this case and even going forward in preparation for doing “Gladiator 2”, just the physical challenge and, you know, you have to look the part. You’ve got to look the part man! And I’m getting there (laughs).
Q: Antoine said once that he thought that you put a little bit of yourself into this role and when asked in what way he mentioned that in “Equalizer 2” when Robert mentors the young man Miles (played by Ashton Sanders) and he said ‘that was pure Denzel.’ Do you agree? Would you agree with that, that you put a little of yourself in there?
A: Yes and you know I’ve got to find more of a reason than just running and jumping around and shooting people. And the answer to me, anyway, was obvious and in “Equalizer 2” the story with the young boy. The streets were calling him, as they call so many young people, and it was literally a matter of life and death.
Q: And that’s part of why the films pack an emotional punch?
A: Yes, I’ve got to find a reason to want to do it, a reason to get behind it and that was the obvious case in “Equalizer 2”. And with “Equalizer 3” it was ‘we’re going to Italy? Great!’ (laughs). That had something to do with the reasoning.
Q: Let’s talk about Robert’s OCD and what that means to his character. Maybe we can all relate to that to an extent?
A: Not to make light of it, there’s our public persona and our private one and Robert is human, he struggles with something, like we all do. And that’s a part of what makes him human and I don’t know if it’s right to say it makes us like him more but we’ve got something (laughs).
Q: What’s your theory with the watch and the timer just before he knows that he’s about to fight? Is it like he’s doing chess moves?
A: I just think its part of his process. I think he needs to do that because it’s part of who he is. And yes, strategically, walking into a room and assessing a threat and deciding how he is going to deal with the threat and in a sense it’s interesting for the audience, because the audience gets ahead of the bad guy, the audience is sort of with him looking at these people, looking at the things in their hands, the knives, the guns, whatever they have, assessing how many there are, who is the tough guy, seeing their tattoos and all of these things. So in a way it allows the audience to get ahead of the bad guy.
Q: And it’s become such a part of the character that the audiences recognises instantly, it’s like ‘yeah, that’s Robert McCall and he’s going to work..’
A: (laughs) Yes and going back to the OCD, I don’t know what it means that he slams the door five times but he has to do it. It’s an interesting tic for lack of a better word. It’s an interesting part of his character. There’s a moment in the first film where he goes into the room with all the Russian guys in there and it’s almost like he feels bad about what he’s done at the end of it. There’s a compassion element to it as well – he’s not just a cold-blooded killer.
Q: How much of the stunt work do they let you do? The film rests on your shoulders, do they try and stop you doing certain things?
A: Well because I’ve been training and boxing for years, for decades, I’m good at throwing punches and being physical. But to answer your question I’ve got a great stuntman and I try to let him do as much as he can and I try to take credit for all of it (laughs). So when it comes to throwing punches usually it’s me throwing ‘em! When it comes to catching punches usually it’s him and when it comes to throwing ‘em usually it’s me! So how’s that?
Q: So you’re still doing the boxing?
A: Yes, still doing the boxing. In fact, when I get up in the morning it’s part of my workout. And you know, Father Time is undefeated (laughs).
Q: What was it like on your final day on set, when you wrapped and were saying goodbye to this character and this creative journey that has stretched over the best part of a decade?
A: I didn’t think of it that way because I was going home. I don’t know what I was thinking about. It wasn’t a moment. And the reality is you never know…
Q: Really? You never know if you might play him again?
A: I know but you never know (laughs). My body knows. My knees know.
Q: But you’re giving fans a little bit of hope there….
A: Well, literally, and I said it jokingly, but literally my knees know where we filmed in Atrani, Italy, there were like 700, 800 that felt like 10,000 steps up to the top of this mountain where the church was and it was rough and the roughest part wasn’t going up, the roughest part was going down when you’ve got bad knees. Oh man. And on stones! And you have these 90 year-old Italian grandmothers passing you like you were walking the other way and she is just going up the steps with her hands behind her back like ‘I do this every day, what’s wrong with you youngster?’ (laughs). It really was hard.
It’s a unique position to be in as an actor because you get to go places and be there for longer periods of time than you ever would as a tourist there on vacation and you get to spend time with the local people. They see the magic of movies being made and that lasts two or three days and then they are just sitting around watching you come to work and unload the trucks and do what you do. And then you pack up everything and go home at the end of the day. But just being with the real people was so special. Like I met this little old lady and she didn’t speak any English, I didn’t speak any Italian so I told someone to tell her that she was my new girlfriend and she was in her high 80s, lets say, definitely somewhere in her 80s, and I said, ‘tell her she’s my new girlfriend..’ And she started pulling on me and everybody started laughing and I’m like, ‘what’s everybody laughing about?’ And she was like, ‘yeah, well I’m taking you home. If you’re my new boyfriend I’m taking you home with me.’ And people were just cracking up. And you know, it’s a privilege just to be a part of a unique culture that you would never become a part of in any other circumstances other than working somewhere for an extended period of time and in this case working on a film, it’s just unique.
Not to mention the Mediterranean is right there as well, the sea is there and that’s not too bad either and the beautiful architecture and the grapes are everywhere. There were grapes, vineyards, everywhere and lemons and the Amalfi Coast is just a magical place. I sound like I should be a tourist guide (laughs). I’ve got to call up my agent to get me a commercial (laughs).
Q: It sounds like you really enjoyed making “Equalizer 3″…
A: I had a great time. A really great time.
Q: And what do you hope that audiences will get from the movie?
A: I hope that they will feel the warmth that’s a part of it. You start to root for these people. I think the town of Atrani is only about 800 people and in our story they all join together to fight. They have strength in numbers and they help to fight against the bad guys. They are no longer afraid to be bullied anymore and you know it was just fun to be a part of this story and I hope that people enjoy it in the way they enjoyed the first two films. It’s got lots of spectacular action and brilliant performances from a great cast.
Q: And on that last day, did you hug Antoine and say ‘thanks for everything’ or did you just walk away?
A: I’m always one to kind of walk away quietly with no big speeches. In fact, on my last day we were filming in Rome and I’m just a kind of quiet kind of guy, no fanfare, look up and I’m gone.
Q: And that suits the character doesn’t it?
A: That’s true, that’s right. After he’s done his work, he’s gone. And it’s like, ‘where is he?’.
Q: But maybe he might come back if we needed him?
A: There’s got to be some crime in Paris or the South of France maybe? I smell bad guys in the Greek islands! There’s got to be some bad guys there (laughs).
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